I think the difference with ioi is that, ioi was short lived, so they following trends made sense, creating an identity for them wasn't necessary.

i find it a little ironic that ive and lessera (along with a few other groups ofc) have gotten so big and have changed gg kpop so fast that they're actually somewhat leaving kepler behind. imagine if weki meki had gotten big enough to hinder izone's success.... idk i just find it funny.

They definitely suits more of the MVSK or Up concept and style more than we fresh or teen crush.

When we were all excited for Yujin to be in a group that was promoted well and already had a fan base, little did we know this is what would happen.

kepler's fandom never left the survival show mentality behind and are still looking at the girls as competitors, not members. the amount of solo stans is wild.

In terms of timing, it feels like Iz*one fans aren't over iz*one yet either. IF this group was created to fill the void for fans who miss their favorite survival show group, they aren't missing them. They've just moved to follow all of those girls into their next step projects.

Honestly the problem with Kelper isn’t the group itself. It’s the fact that MNET rushed to push another girl group survival show immediately in the midst of IZONE disbanding. If they waited for the wave of girl groups that were coming in like they have with other produce groups, they could’ve had more time to map out the show formula properly as well as create a proper group identity for the lineup they wanted. But as you said, they wanted their cake and to eat it too…

as much as i think that the rigging in previous seasons was absolutely unfair (baekho being rigged out of wannaone), and how using trainees for drama even if they knew they were debuting them (chaeyeon in p48) was very inhumane, ultimately it's what made the show interesting. their control of the plotline made the show much more dramatic. and even the rigging contributed to the success of the groups imho. it's not a secret that chaewon was likely rigged into izone, but it's difficult to imagine the group without her now. she had the talent but not the popularity, and if the show had been "genuine" she would've probably been left to obscurity

You are the first one to speak the truth about Bahiyyih. Had Mnet given her a little more screentime to show her hard work and improvements she wouldn't be so hated now. Instead Mnet didn't want her to debut, they didn't even show her at all during the last episode hoping viewers would forget about her during live voting.

I also think nmixx suffers the same by having an identity crisis, concepts and songs that just don’t appeal to the public. I’m honestly tired of the loud, teen crush sound, and having Ive and New Jeans is just so refreshing

Produce groups never had original concepts,they just had a good song to accompany a trendy concept of the time they debuted.

As a fan of survival shows that weren't actually rigged (produce JAPAN is right there), yes, that's what happens when the company don't actually know who the winners are going to be. Both groups of pdjp are mildly successful and their fanbase is mostly people who watch the show, you really can't create a concept and plan beforehand if you don't know the winning contestants. Keptier just seems like the natural resolution of a normal survical show